Carlie: Hey there it’s Carlie with the Expat Focus podcast. Before we get into this episode, I just want to mention our website, expatfocus.com, which is a great place to start if you’re looking to make a successful move abroad. From the homepage, you can click through to find individual destination guides. And make sure to sign up to our newsletter for our free Moving Abroad resources, including a helpful email course. You can subscribe at expatfocus.com/newsletter.
Is Panama a tax haven for expat property investors? What sort of rental return should I expect? Can I list on Airbnb there, and do I need to worry about hurricanes? On the show to answer these questions and more, is Melissa Darnay, the CEO of Choose Panama.
Melissa, thanks so much for joining me on the Expat Focus Podcast.
Melissa: Lovely to be here, thank you.
Carlie: I’m really curious, in your bio, you call yourself “a classic before and after story”. So can you tell me a bit about what’s led you to where you are today?
Melissa: Absolutely. And there are many factors that led me here. I became a young widow in my thirties. My husband was killed in a car accident. And at that tender age, I did not have the skill set to navigate the process of being a widow, the grief, the journey, all the different steps you needed to go through. Before that, if you had looked into my life and said, “okay, who is Melissa Darnay?” Most people would have said vibrant, vivacious, big personality.
And as I was sort of outside myself looking in a year or two years later, I saw myself instead of being this glittery rainbow, I was sort of this sad blob of gray. I was not myself. And I made a conscious decision that I didn’t know how long it was going to take, but I wanted to become Melissa Darnay again. So I knew I had to do something. So that was sort of step one.
Step two, when my husband had been alive, we had always dreamed of someday retiring in Italy. That was, you know, we’re going to make our money, we’re going to retire, we’re going to move to Italy. That was it. So in my head, I already had the prospect of living overseas and being an expat. The third thing that happened in this collision of events was that I had good friends who had been in the mortgage industry in the United States. And when the mortgage industry collapsed and they couldn’t make a living, they had to make a radical change. So they gathered their friends and they said, “hey, we’re moving to Panama!”
And I remember being so sad because I thought I’m never going to see them again because I’m never going to Panama. Panama is dirt roads and grubby faced kids and a drug dealer on every street corner and roosters, and that is not what I want for my life. That was back in 2010 and by the end of 2010, these friends of ours had convinced this whole group of us to come visit for Christmas.
So 2010, we came to Panama and I remember just being so shocked when I landed, because Panama City was not what I had envisioned. It was like a young Miami with these big skyscrapers and it’s right on the ocean. So everything just sort of sparkled.
And I remember thinking, “wow, if I’m this wrong about what it looks like, what else am I wrong about?” So by the end of the trip, I remember thinking, “okay, my mind has been changed about Panama,” but I’d always had my heart set on living in Italy.
So I was doing this, you know, looking into doing a checklist (I’m a checklist person) about what it would look like if I left the US. At the time I had a marketing agency and, you know, moved overseas and how would I make a living and what would I need? You know, all these things you don’t really think about when you’re living in your own country. You need to get residency. You just can’t show up and, you know, live somewhere without having the legal ability to live there.
And as I was doing this checklist, I realized that as much as I love vacationing in Italy, it was a harder place for me to see myself living because I couldn’t see how I would actually make a living there. When I ended up making the decision to move to Panama, I wasn’t sure how long I was going to live here.
It never crossed my mind, “well, you know, I’m going to live for one or two years and then come back,” or “I’m going to live forever.” It was just, “okay, that’s going to be the next step in my journey. And I’m going to live there for as long as it makes sense.” But it was such an easy transition.
You know, if you look at living anywhere else other than, you know, your home country, there’s 100 different things that become part of that process. Things like, you know, buying a car, opening a bank account, you know, having someone help you clean your house. And in that checklist of 100 things, 97 of them are easy in Panama, versus other countries. And I think that’s what really led me to come to Panama.
Carlie: I was going to ask, what seemed more achievable about a move to Panama and over Italy? And as you said, it was the administrative side of things that seemed easier.
Melissa: That’s right. Little things like for me living in the US the flight, okay, it’s a couple hours, whereas, you know, getting to Italy is a lot more complicated. So there was that logistics. And also just the logistics of making a living. That was, that was a really big one on my list. The logistics of getting residency. You know, for me again, it was the US dollar to US dollar: Panama’s a dollarized economy. All these things just were so easy with Panama and so much more complicated, you know, in any other country.
Carlie: So when you did move, did you just have a couple of years in mind?
Melissa: Again, I don’t know that I actually had a timeframe. I didn’t think it would be forever, I’ll be honest, but I didn’t say it was going to be like a couple years. I ended up selling my house and buying a place. The funny story is I bought a place in Panama, you can see behind me where I live, it’s quite beautiful.
Carlie: Really beautiful!
Melissa: I had no idea what I was buying before I bought it because I bought pre construction. So until I had my suitcases in hand and I opened the door, I had never seen my property.
Carlie: Pre construction is like what we call off the plan in Australia.
Melissa: That’s right. That’s right. And it’s not something I would really recommend if someone’s going to buy something. I love for them to be able to, you know, touch it, feel it…and they can buy off the plan/pre construction, but at least kind of know what you’re getting into. But again, it was my dive into finding myself again. So I thought, “no matter how long this adventure lasts, it’s going to be the next step to bring me back to me.” I’ve been here now 12 years, since 2012, and at this point in my life, I can say I don’t see myself leaving.
Carlie: It’s very much home.
Melissa: Yeah, it is home. And I don’t think I would have said that, you know, either before I moved or right when I moved. But it is. Panama is such an easy place to live. Again, there’s three or four things that are hard and everything else is so easy. And when I go other places, and don’t have that ease of things that I have here, it sort of annoys me! When I go back to the US and things are hard, it’s like, “oh my goodness, I can’t, you know, get me back to Panama!”
Carlie: “Get me back to Panama!” Exactly. So Melissa, you said in the States you were working in marketing, how or what attracted you to move into real estate? And why did you move into real estate?
Melissa: So one thing happened: after my husband died, I ended up buying a house. It was the very first house I’d ever bought on my own. And I felt ripped off. I felt like, you know, someone along the process had ripped me off and it was this really icky, uncomfortable feeling.
So whenever I go through something like that, I educate myself. That’s just always been my way of doing things. So I went to real estate school, not necessarily with the thought of becoming a realtor, a full time realtor in the US, but I wanted to be a realtor for my family and friends. I wanted to have that knowledge so that the next time I bought a house, you know, I would be in control of that process.
And one thing that that did for me is it gave me a base, you know, what is real estate law? What are the tenants of real estate? And it gave me a good foundation in the US, so that by the time I thought about moving to Panama and I thought about, you know, the big question here was how was I going to make a living?
My friend who had moved here had bought into a real estate company. So when I first came, I was working with his company. And so I think, you know, that was one thing that was good was having the ability to transition directly, knowing what the path was and knowing how I was going to make money. Real estate is not the easiest way to make money, especially in a country where I spoke five words of Spanish.
But when I came here, I said, “okay, I’m going to give myself a year before I’m going to rely on this real estate income.” So I kept a few of my marketing clients to transition myself. And I think that’s one of the smartest things I could have done because then I wasn’t worried about money when I was building a client list here in Panama.
Carlie: So what makes Panama appealing for investing in real estate?
Melissa: This is such an interesting question, and again, I’m a checklist person, so I think when you look at any country in the world that’s appealing, there are, you know, there are pros and cons anywhere, and I think what makes Panama so appealing is it’s just got more of those good positive check marks than really any other place. And am I biased?
Certainly, I’m biased, but things like the fact that, you know, for a lot of people, having it be US dollar means that it’s a stable currency. The fact that there’s so much coastline and it’s so affordable to buy beachfront property. One of the most eye opening articles that I wrote is…I’m blogging, I’m always learning about different things as I’m coming up with new topics to blog about.
And one day I decided, you know, I wonder what the carrying costs are between like Panama versus Miami versus, you know, Southern California? Because beachfront is beachfront is beachfront. And if you take away the cost of purchasing the property, which again, if you’re going to purchase it in the south of France, if you’re going to purchase it in Southern California, the purchase price is astronomical compared to what it is in Panama.
But then if you even swipe that aside and say, “okay, let’s just look at carrying costs”, the carrying costs in Panama, like typically for an HOA, you’re going to be paying 100, 200, maybe $300 a month. And that will cover everything typically, except for your electricity and your cable and internet. Then you have property taxes.
We have a lot of options that are property tax exempt. Then you have, your insurance and especially places like southern Florida where the insurance is so crazy expensive if you can even get it because of hurricanes. So I took a similar apartment to mine, and I actually have a friend who has a place in southern Florida, and they’re very similar. Similar in size, similar in amenities, but he pays $6,000 a month just in carrying costs. That’s not mortgage, that’s not paying the electricity bill, that’s basically just property taxes, insurance, and HOA.
Carlie: Carrying costs, is that like a little bit like body corporate, like, or collective costs for the building and maintenance as well?
Melissa: Yes, yes. So when we talk about carrying costs, it’s really…you can lump other things into it, like electricity or, you know, your cable and internet, because it’s what it costs you to carry that property, whether or not you’re living there. If we take out those other things like electricity and cable, and just those three main buckets, you’re looking at something in southern Florida that’s $6,000 a month before you open the door, versus Panama, where it’s $500 a month before, you know, it’s…
Carlie: You can’t compare that.
Melissa: …with one month of what you’re going to pay in southern Florida. And I think that even to me, having lived here for a while, that was very eye opening. And I thought, “you know what? A lot of people, they’re just looking at the cost of what it costs to buy the property. They’re not even thinking about how cheap it is to carry it.”
In the beginning, when I started selling real estate in Panama, my average client was someone who was retired or pre retired. So they wanted to be here part of the year if they lived in a place like Canada or northern US that was very cold. So they wanted to spend winters here. And then they wanted to rent it out the rest of the year so that they could basically cover their expenses.
Over the years, this customer has changed. This customer has gotten younger. Now it’s, you know, my generation. So Gen Xers are moving here. Some are retired, some are pre retired, but a lot of them are still working, but have found a way to either work remotely or work here part of the year. So they’re looking for different things. I think a lot more people are looking for lifestyle. So when you, again, you look at the check boxes of why Panama, the lower carrying costs, the lower cost of acquisition, the better lifestyle, the ease of getting here, an international airport. We have flights now…direct flights to most major cities in the world, which makes it easy to get here.
Carlie: Can we speak candidly for a second? I think we both know that Panama has a certain reputation when it comes to its tax laws. We’re not all billionaires trying to hide our wealth. So for the average investor looking at Panama, are there actually tax advantages and is this jurisdiction completely tax free or will you actually encounter taxes as an investor, whether it’s your primary residence or a second home?
Melissa: Yes, and this is such a great question, Carlie, thank you. Panama is thought of as a tax haven and tax haven has such a negative connotation. When we think tax haven, we think, you know, drug dealers stuffing money into suitcases. And it’s sort of that “shh, don’t tell anyone that your money’s in Panama”.
Carlie: 100%, yeah!
Melissa: Where the reality is Panama is what is called a territorial tax system. And what that means is the only money that’s taxed is money earned within the territory. So, if you earn money, like I work within Panama, I pay Panama income tax. Someone else, if they come to Panama and they’re getting some sort of pension or retirement from their home country, they’re not going to be taxed on that pension or social security.
Carlie: Because it’s not originating in Panama.
Melissa: It’s not originating in Panama. Absolutely. Also, if you sell a property and you’re going to pay capital gains, you sell it in your home country (or it doesn’t matter where it is) if you’re not selling it in Panama, you’re not going to pay any tax on that capital gains either. In other countries, like my home country, the US, they try to tax you on everything, everywhere, all the time.
Carlie: Right. Worldwide income, yes.
Melissa: Worldwide income. So that is something that makes Panama special. Now, Panama had been on the naughty list. We’d been on France’s gray list for a while and just got off of it last October. So, since then, it has become more challenging to do your due diligence in order to make sure that your money is clean. I mean, the same laws still apply. It’s just, you have to go through a little bit more of a process. And in that checklist of a hundred things, you know, this is one thing that’s become a little harder now is you do have to prove your money is clean and it’s yours. Probably the naughtiest thing you could do in Panama right now is, you know, be a money launderer.
Carlie: I was going to say, if you’re not stuffing drugs into suitcases, you’re probably fine!
Melissa: Exactly.
Carlie: You spoke a bit earlier about people from the US, you know, traditionally they’d be retired and moving to Panama, but now we’re seeing more Gen Xers. Is there a typical foreigner profile that does look to invest in Panama? You talked about people more flexibly working, remote working, looking as a second location for them to spend the colder months in their usual home base.
Melissa: Yeah, it’s interesting to me now that I’ve been here 12 years, I would say any country that is having a little bit of angst, we tend to get a lot of influx from that country during their angst period.
So right now we’re getting a lot of people from South Africa. Because they’re having a hard time making a living. So younger people are moving here in search for a better life.
For a while we were getting a lot of people from France. We tend to always get more people from the US and Canada just because it’s, you know, proximity wise, we’re so close. Europe, all…you know, we tend to always get a lot of Italians because there’s an Italian treaty from the 70s that gives them easy residency. So, yes, we do see influx from other countries, but they come and go in waves.
Carlie: As an Australian, a big holiday destination close to home is Bali. A lot of Aussies at some point in their lives look at investing in property in Bali. And I believe there’s a rule in Indonesia where foreigners cannot actually own property, and so you end up with something like a 99 year lease. Is that a similar situation in Panama? If you’re a foreigner buying property, are you legitimately the owner, or are you kind of like a pseudo owner?
Melissa: No, that’s a great question. And yes, in most instances, you’re the owner. There are a couple exemptions to that, like a foreigner cannot own within 10 kilometers of an international border for security purposes. And there are a couple areas of Panama that are considered so integral to Panama’s economy that you also can’t own there. But for the most part, any place that you’re going to purchase, you own that title. And if it’s in the public registry in Panama, that’s it. You own it. It’s yours.
Carlie: End of story. And me never having traveled Central America, Latin America, I’m a little bit clueless with this question, Melissa, but…in terms of cities in Panama (this is what you’re here for!) in terms of cities in Panama, where foreigners generally look to buy property, are there typical cities that people will gravitate to? Are there any hidden gems or up and coming locations that you’re noticing people are wanting to move to more and more?
Melissa: Yes, absolutely. We’re going to put the Panama map, we’re going to say there’s three buckets. The first of course is Panama City. It’s the capital. It’s where everything is happening. In one area of town, Costa del Este, which is a neighborhood, there are over 120 multinational companies, companies like Nestlé, Samsung, Adidas, L’Oréal. So there’s this huge influx of people from all over the world. So that’s definitely one place where expats tend to go, but it tends to be the people who live in Panama City do tend to be working age or they’ve moved from a big city and just could never imagine their life outside of a big city.
The second area is Coronado. This is more of a laid back beach town with miles and miles and miles of endless beaches. Some of them are white sand, some of them are sort of that volcanic black and tan sand beach. But it definitely, it’s the beach vibe. So you can go to any restaurant in shorts and flip flops. You can go to the bank in shorts and flip flops. A lot of people don’t ever dress up. It’s very casual.
The best part about Coronado is really you don’t need to have much Spanish there because so many people, you know, speak English. And there are so many different expats from around the world there. It does tend to have an older demographic than Panama City does, because a lot of times to live there, you do have to be, you know, have your income ready to go.
We are getting more and more people in Coronado who are a little bit younger and again, can work remotely. So we’re seeing that trend. The third area is Boquete. Boquete is a mountain community about 3000 feet up. So you have this year round spring weather from the high 80s to the…sorry, from the high 60s to the low 80s temperature wise, which would be (I’m going to convert this to Celsius) so about 20 to 27, 28 Celsius.
Carlie: Oh, that’s really nice. Yeah.
Melissa: Perfect weather all year long. Boquete tends to be mostly English. It’s a very American expat location and it’s definitely retired. So the median age is definitely older there. You have fewer, you know, people in our age group. If you look outside of those regions, for example, where I am, I’m in an area called Playa Bonita. So we’re about 15 minutes from Panama City. So you have Panama City at your fingertips, but you’re not in the city. So this is my number one hidden gem because a lot of people overlook it because it’s not city, it’s not technically the beaches region.
Carlie: Should we be talking about this?
Melissa: I do tell people where I live all the time, so it’s not a big secret!
Carlie: OK. The word is getting out, yeah.
Melissa: The word is getting out where I live. But it is, you know, it’s safe and secure. It’s gated. You know, so on and so forth, but it’s an amazing place to live.
Carlie: You don’t mind if more people come, it’s okay.
Melissa: No, no.
Carlie: I’ve been reading a lot of news coverage recently about the terrible storms affecting Florida and also the flow on effect in recent years onto insurance, property valuations. It sounds like a lot of people in Florida are having a really hard time with their investments. What’s the climate like in Panama? Are there the types of storms and insurance issues that some parts of the United States are kind of facing?
Melissa: Thank you so much for this question. This is one of the reasons I really moved here as well. I grew up in California, which has earthquakes. Then I moved to Dallas, Texas that had tornadoes.
Carlie: Oh gosh.
Melissa: And it’s so close to the hurricanes. Weather was constantly a fact of life. In Panama, just because we’re so close to the equator, hurricanes don’t hit us at all. Historically, there has never been a hurricane here. I recently did a podcast about it because it was so fascinating to me. There’s about nine different reasons why we don’t have hurricanes here, but we don’t have hurricanes, we don’t have earthquakes. We’re pretty much protected from just about every natural disaster.
And what that has done, it’s kept insurance rates low. To give you an example, insurance here is typically one tenth of 1% of the value. So if you’re looking at a $300,000 property, you’re going to pay $300 per year for fire and structure insurance. In a place like Florida that’s hit year after year after year with hurricanes, I mean, they’re looking at thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars per month to get very limited coverage.
Carlie: It’s really alarming and quite scary and really sad for people in those areas that have invested in property there who are facing like not even being able to sell their properties. So that was the first thing I thought about. And we’re speaking about beautiful beachfront and how affordable it is. All I could think was, “okay, but what’s the catch?”
Melissa: Right? And that’s the wonderful thing: there isn’t a catch.
Carlie: Can I ask what the reception is from the locals to overseas investment and so many foreigners coming to Panama. I mean, it’s been happening for a long time now. Is there animosity? Is there just a welcoming nature? Is it accepted that there’s a big mix of English in with the local Spanish speaking?
Melissa: Yes, I think it’s about 90% open arms and 10% of “gosh, you need to speak Spanish”. Which I got to tell you in my country, it would be 99% “you got to speak English” and 1% open arms.
Carlie: I think about the same in Australia sometimes.
Melissa: As an expat who didn’t know Spanish when I moved here, I’m so grateful that they’re such a kind in giving and open, you know, people. I think a lot of Panamanians know that the economy here is so good because of all of the expats. I mean, the Panama Canal is, of course, the number one industry, but you have the multinationals. You have banking, which depends on expats. You have the real estate industry, which is led by expats. So I think it’s a very symbiotic relationship. So I think most people are happy with it.
Carlie: Our listeners love it when we get real about what things really cost and offer this kind of practical advice. So investing in Panama, if you are looking to buy a home, and I know obviously different cities will offer different prices. Are you directly by the water? Are you directly close to the major city? But what can you tell me as we’re speaking now in October of 2024, about the average price of homes and apartments in Panama and what you should be expecting to pay?
Melissa: This is such a great question. First of all, in Panama City, you’re going to be hard pressed to get a home. It’s very much a city. So it is a, you know, an apartment city. You can get a beachfront, absolute beachfront apartment in the beaches region for under $200,000. In a building that has a lot of amenities, great security. It’s going to be a smaller…so we’re talking, you know, 70-ish square meters, which is about 750 square feet.
So it’ll be great for a vacation home, someplace you live part of the time, great for an investment that you can rent out. But again: beachfront, under $200,000 with very low carrying costs. In the city you could get something similar that’s waterfront. It’s going to be a little bit more in the city. So, a little bit bigger, maybe, but look at 250 to $300,000. If you want a home, it has to be outside of Panama City. So, if you’re looking for an actual house that’s on the water, you’re going to start higher there for the absolute waterfront house, probably in the $800,000 to a million range.
If you’re looking for a house that’s not on the water, then, you know, 300,000 to 500,000 will get you something great.
Carlie: It all sounds quite attractive and quite reasonable, especially for the quality of life.
Melissa: That’s it.
Carlie: So I want to know about rental returns. If you, as you mentioned, you have people that come to Panama for half the year, colder months, and then go back to where they’re usually based. If you are renting out a place that you’ve invested in in Panama for half the year or full time, what should you expect?
Melissa: So there’s two answers to that question. The first thing when I meet someone, I ask them what they’re…what they want, because some people who want to live here half the year or two months of the year and then just pay for their expenses, that’s a completely different investment than somebody who wants maximum return on investment.
So if you’re actually looking to be here part of the year and just want to cover your expenses and maybe put a little bit of money in the bank, we’re going to have a lot of options for you: beachfront…you know, great options. But your return on investment is going to be 1, 2, 3, 4%. It’s going to be on the lower end of the return on investment. If you’re an investor and you want your maximum return on investment, really, you’re going to be in the city. You’re not going to be staying in your own property. It’s going to be rented out full time. And in those scenarios, we can look more at the 8 to 12% return on investment.
Carlie: And what’s the trend…I know a lot of cities are facing the realities of holiday lets, for example, and sites like Airbnb, and some of them are hitting a bit of a crunch point. What’s that landscape like in Panama? Is it still quite a healthy short term letting sort of environment or are property investors kind of tending towards more long term leases now?
Melissa: In Panama City, there’s been a law on the book since 2012 that they don’t allow short term rentals. So anywhere within the city limits. So it has to be 45 days or longer. So the city really is a long term market. One of the great things about Playa Bonita, where I am, is that law does not apply to us. So we’re able to do short term rentals here. Other than doing the real estate, we also have a property management arm. So we manage about 40 properties in the building. So we can help people find a rental if they want to, you know, have this view behind us.
Carlie: It is really quite stunning. If you are not watching this episode on our YouTube channel, I highly recommend it just to see the beautiful view that Melissa is sitting in front of. But I’m sorry to interrupt: please continue!
Melissa: So in this…if someone were to purchase here and use it part time and then rent it out again, they would, you know, it would be cashflow positive. It puts some money in their, you know, account. But depending upon how much they invested.
So typically in this building, the lower end apartments, which are, you know, in the probably 325, 350 range (350,000 range), again, you’re going to be cash flow positive, but you’re not going to be putting a lot of money extra in your pocket. Whereas if you bought on the higher end side, just under a million dollars, those do get a pretty good return on investment. And it’s based on size and demand and things like that. And we could help manage that property for you.
When you go into the interior of the country is what they call…any, basically anything that’s not Panama City is the interior. So when you go into the interior of the country, there is a much shorter time when people rent and it doesn’t really have to do with Panama because the weather here is consistent all year long, but it has to do when people are coming here because typically we tend to get the snowbirds.
So, December, January, February, March, everything is rented. You can’t find anything. But then the rest of the year, things are slow. So, if you’re looking for return on investment, and you want to buy something in the Coronado beaches area, you’re not going to get as good of return on investment again, as if you rented in the city.
Now, back to that Airbnb question, we have found doing Airbnbs here, you know, we’ve been doing it now in the building for 12 years, we have a steady book of business, so we can help, you know, mitigate anything else because we have about 50% of our renters are repeat renters. In the city, Airbnb really isn’t an option. And then when you go to the beaches area, Boquete, you can do Airbnb, but again, it’s going to be less than here.
Carlie: Melissa, at the start you mentioned that you were motivated to study real estate because you felt like you’d been scammed on a property purchase. Investing abroad is always fraught with a little bit of risk, especially when you’re unfamiliar with local legislation, possibly the local language, let alone how things are done in a particular culture. What are some red flags that you can describe for people looking at Panama for the first time?
Melissa: In a different country…I mean, here’s the reality when you’re investing in a different country, you have to trust somebody. Trusting the wrong person can get you in big trouble. So the things to look for, you know, is to deal with a reputable real estate person who’s licensed. Ask to see their license, ask to see the fact that they’re bonded, because this is going to make sure that they’re following the laws of the country.
There are so many people that I’ve run into who said, you know, “oh, I met so and so who said that he’s in real estate.” He’s not real estate. He’s not licensed. He’s not bonded. He doesn’t have to go through the same process that I go through. So that’s number one. Number two: get a good attorney. Somebody who speaks your same native language.
For English speakers that’s easy because there are some great attorneys in Panama who speak fluent English. Number three: understand the entire process before you get started. So understand, you know, how long is it going to take? Who’s going to be involved? Who’s responsible? When is it in your name? Find out every step of the process so that there are no surprises. And then also find out once you own that property, then what? What do you need in order to get it insured? What do you need in order to make sure everything is, you know, that the t’s are crossed and the i’s are dotted. And knowing all of that ahead of time will really keep you from being scammed
Carlie: Is it the case that real estate brokers and agents in Panama all kind of know each other? Is it a small market in that sense?
Melissa: Absolutely. We all know each other. Absolutely. 100%.
Carlie: So hopefully you guys can weed out the dodgy operators pretty quickly, or at least be able to identify them pretty quickly.
Melissa: Yes. And it’s not so much getting rid of the real estate agents who are licensed that are bad, it’s getting rid of the people who aren’t licensed, who aren’t real estate agents, who are trying to make a quick buck by saying, “hey, I know a guy.” So when you hear the, “hey, I know a guy”: run!
Carlie: Finally Melissa, after more than a decade in the country, what is it that you continue to love about your life in Panama?
Melissa: There are so many things that I love. I love living on the ocean. The air is different here, and I think it has something to do with literally being on the ocean. The ozone is different. I love being in the middle of the jungle and the ocean combined. And I know that that sounds like it’s one thing, but it’s two things. I love the green. I love the ocean. I love the expat community. I think in order to leave your country and live somewhere else, you have to have a certain level of adventure.
So almost everyone I meet has that same adventurous spirit and we all have a story, and I love meeting people and hearing their stories. I’ve met people from around the world that I never would have met had I not moved here. I personally think that every single person should live somewhere else at some point in their life, whether it’s for six months, a year, five years, ten years, because it does make you a richer person. And I just, I wish that for everybody.
Carlie: 100%! Speaking as a fellow foreigner, immigrants, expat, however you’d like to call it, moving abroad is one of the best things they ever did in my life too.
Melissa: Absolutely.
Carlie: Melissa, thank you so much for coming on the Expat Focus Podcast today to share your insights into living and investing in property in Panama. Where can listeners find you if they’d like more information about you?
Melissa: Two places: I have my own podcast, the Panama Podcast, where you can look on all the different podcast channels, but you can also find it on YouTube; or you can go to my website, choosepanama.com. While you’re there, you can go ahead and snag a free copy of my book, Panama Uncorked. This will give you all the information that you need to invest, live, or vacation in Panama.
Carlie: That’s it for today. Have you bought property in Panama? Maybe you’ve fallen for a common scam there and want to tell us about it. Hit the comments section of our YouTube channel, just search for Expat Focus. If you like what we do, please rate us and say something nice on Apple Podcasts or wherever you like to listen. And I’ll catch you next time.