Carlie: Hey there, it’s Carlie. We’re looking for feedback from Expat Focus podcast listeners and we’ll give them an Amazon gift card for their time. If this sounds like you, drop us an email for more details at contact@expatfocus.com.
If you’re aiming to move abroad this year, a life coach may be exactly who you need to hear from. Bianca Tate joins me to explain why clarity, confidence, and courage are key to achieving your goals.
It’s the Expat Focus podcast, the first podcast for 2025. And I couldn’t think of a better guest to have this conversation with as we kick off the new year. Bianca Tate, welcome to the show.
Bianca: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here today.
Carlie: You’re a professional coach and you help your clients navigate major life decisions. One of those is, of course, the decision to move abroad, which you’ve had firsthand experience in. Can you tell me about your international journey?
Bianca: Oh, yes, absolutely. Happy to.
It’s been a little bit all over the place. I’m currently based in Lisbon, Portugal, which is the fourth country that I’m living in. For context, I was born in Germany, moved to the United States at a very young age. I feel like I’ve always had it in me to want to move abroad, explore and come back to Europe.
Halfway through my career, I made the decision that I really want to experience Germany as an adult, actually living there, working there and not just visiting my grandparents. I found an opportunity that brought me to Berlin, Germany, for 15 months for an international assignment to launch a major retailer in the United States.
In that move, I thought I was well prepared, having some German roots to move to Berlin, and I learned the hard way that culture shock is a real thing, even if you have German roots. That was my first experience as an expat many lessons learned from that. But at the end of the day, it really woke up that desire for me and resonated with me that Germany and Europe really is home.
After one year back in the US with my international assignment coming to an end, I decided that Europe is home and I made the transition to move back to Germany. Since that time, I’ve spent three years living in the Netherlands. I’ve had the opportunity to take a sabbatical for 15 months where I travelled the world.
I spent several months in South America, South Africa and traveling through Europe. Then coming back to reality, of course, I needed to pick a place to land. I really wanted to stretch my comfort zone expand my horizons. Portugal has always been one of my favourite countries. I decided to really try something new and I sought out an opportunity enabling me to move to Portugal.
Carlie: Amazing. You really have been everywhere by the sounds of it. It’s interesting. You talk about going to Germany with a little bit of confidence because of your heritage and then having that culture shock. My father is from Malta and when we went to Malta for the first time, I had this blind faith that I could follow his lead.
He was even a little bit of a fish out of water in his home country because it had been so many years. Do you remember something specific about your move to Germany and feeling you had it completely understood and then realised you didn’t.
Bianca: Yes. I feel like Berlin, it was completely a different world anyway.
Then when I did live in Germany, I grew up in small village outside of Frankfurt. The Germany that I knew was not the Germany I arrived to in Berlin. Especially coming from Florida to Berlin, it was a night and day difference. To be fair,
I also only had a few days’ notice from my employer because they looked at me and I spoke some German. They said your German’s good enough. We need you to go in three days. Where some of my other colleagues had several months to prepare and do language training. I remember coming back to Berlin and the dialect also being completely different. Regular terms that I knew for groceries and things like that were terms that I’d never heard of.
Also arriving there as someone in senior leadership, preparing to launch the company in the United States, everyone was looking at me with such high expectations and I didn’t know basic terms. I think going to work and trying to meet the expectations was a big shock. The language barrier really surprised me.
I think throughout that 15 month journey, I fell into some of the more traditional pitfalls that many expats find themselves in once that honeymoon period and newness wears off.
Carlie: As a life coach, I suppose you would advise your clients to take more than a couple of days to prepare for a move abroad?
Bianca: Yes. I had already accepted the assignment and the position, so I knew it was coming. It was maybe not the best way to handle it also from an employer’s point of view of how does three days’ notice sound when you think you have several months.
As a life coach, one of the key things is to be clear. Why are you going? Know what’s important for you so that you can prepare to have all those things as you transition. Of course, have somewhat of an action plan for when you get there. This, being my first time expat experience, I just thought cool, I’m going to Germany. No big deal. I’m having support with logistics, housing and getting settled. I don’t see what I need to really prepare for here.
It turns out there’s a lot to prepare for when you make this transition.
Carlie: I’m curious about which point in your journey you decided to help others with their moves abroad.
Bianca: I think my journey in becoming a coach has been going on for some time and the clarity to help others move abroad just came together. I have a 14 years’ experience in the corporate world, leading teams, mentoring, coaching. So, I think this innate desire to help others and guide others has always been there.
Added in that I’ve known for at least six years that I’ve wanted to work for myself and logically speaking, consulting made sense. I knew if I was going to go all in, it needed to align with my values, my passion, and having to navigate facing burnout as an expat myself. I, in the past, have worked with a life coach and getting clarity around my values, goals and really what I want in working with this coach also inspired me at that time to seek a similar path.
It was still a few years in the making and certain circumstances just point you in the right direction. I all came together for me that coaching others is really where I found my ikigai.
What I love, what I could get paid for, what people need. Now add in my personal experience of having travelled the world, having been an expat four times over, knowing all the pitfalls firsthand, having experienced some of those things as being made redundant six months within a move, some of the worst case scenarios as an expat, navigating burnout as an expat, but also finding ways to thrive and recover from those things.
It just really tied together for me with coaching that if I’m going to help people gain clarity, find confidence, be courageous, in what better area than when you’re thinking of making one of the biggest moves of your life to another country.
Carlie: Is there a very typical profile that you work with?
I think you and I were probably in a similar position of being, professionals in our maybe mid-career when we decided to change countries. Do you work with a lot of people in a similar position or is it a really broad spectrum?
Bianca: Yes. I would say it’s primarily mid-career professionals making that transition.
I have also coached some early career professionals that are considering taking their first big assignment and maybe moving to another country for a better opportunity. I’ve coached seasoned expats who are considering maybe their tenth country and whether they should take this job offer in Spain or not.
I’ve also coached partners and spouses that have accompanied their partner to another country that are really trying to find themselves, find their identity, get their career going and build their own social life in this new environment.
Carlie: Is choosing a life coach a little bit like choosing a psychologist?
You have to make sure both they and you are the right fit for each other.
Bianca: That was so well put because that’s exactly what I tell people. Even when I have an introductory call, and that’s why I have actually introductory calls with people, I always tell them it’s so important that you energetically align that your personality match with the person that you choose as a coach because it’s like choosing a therapist.
Being coached requires some vulnerability. We may touch on things that require you to open up. You’ll be doing some digging deep, and you want to make 100 percent sure that you’re comfortable with whoever you’re speaking to. Also, their approach. It’s very important to ask how they work. What type of tools they incorporate.
I personally tried to adapt mine to my client’s style, but I use a lot of somatic tools such as breath work or suggest meditation practice. Some of my clients get journaling prompts. So, also with the work outside of the coaching session, you might want to make sure that’s aligned with what you want.
Do you want homework assignments or do you want just time to reflect between sessions? Looking at those things I think are very important to ensure that you have a successful relationship and a productive relationship with your coach.
Carlie: I’m one of those people that will ask for homework assignments and then not do them until 30 minutes before our next call.
Bianca: But if you did it though you get that sense of, I did something towards this.
Carlie: For you, Bianca, you had this familial connection to Germany. You had a work opportunity. You knew you’d always wanted to live in Europe. You had these reasons to go to this country. For people just figuring out their move abroad, who may not be set on a country yet, what sort of factors should they be considering as they examine where they should move.
Bianca: There’s quite a few and it really depends on everybody’s personal circumstances. I’ve created a worksheet for my clients that really don’t have any idea yet, they just know they want to. Which breaks it down into several different categories. There’s always the practical side. Where can I easily go with my visa? Especially if you don’t have a job opportunity.
There’s the financial side, looking at things like taxes, quality of health care. It’s really knowing why you want to move and then finding countries that align with that. Is it because you’re tired of the winters in Canada and you want a nice warm climate year around?
Do you want to grow and push your boundaries, learn a new language, learn Spanish? All of these factors should be considered when you’re looking at a country. It’s very good to take a step back and think about your why, if it’s career opportunity then of course you might narrow down countries based on that.
Then really looking at what factors are important. What I always recommend is that clients give each category a weight of how important is this for me. Then you can easily score and rank the countries to see how they score in each category that you determine is important.
To recap, there’s the practical side, political environment, social benefits. A lot of clients focus on LGBTQ rights etc, whereas others just want to live in sunshine year round. Don’t care where they go, they can work remotely. Once you have those factors, you can rank and rate the countries, there’s a lot of resources online and a lot of resources I share with my clients to really dig into that.
Carlie: When I think about the factors that led me to London a decade ago, I had a European passport, this was, pre Brexit and it was English speaking. I felt oh it’s going to be the most similar country to Australia. I had very simplistic reasons for why I chose the UK.
A decade later, if I made that same move, I think my parameters, my factors in choosing a country would be different to when they were, in my twenties.
Bianca: Of course. I think also everybody has their own degree of comfort. One of the points on the questionnaire, that I have to help people select the countries, is cultural familiarity, English speaking, for example. The ease to get by.
I’m doing okay in Lisbon, but a lot of things, even government wise, are very difficult to navigate if you do not speak Portuguese. That can lead to a lot of frustrations and challenges. If it’s your first move abroad, it makes sense to pick something that might be an easier transition. It’s a stepping stone for a lot of people as well.
Carlie: Yeah, depends on how much you like a challenge as well. If you want to scale that challenge up later, which is I feel like what you did.
Bianca: Now that you’ve asked me the question, I was reflecting on this myself. Would I have moved to Portugal right out of the gate?
Given what my values and priorities were at that point, if the career opportunity would have been amazing. Probably, but I think I would have had a lot more hesitation for sure. So yes, I also feel like I built up to Portugal.
Carlie: We talked about the fact that ideally you spend more than a couple of days preparing for a move abroad.
I know for me; I think the thought that maybe I want to relocate started from a Europe trip in September or October and the following April I decided to quit my job. It was maybe close to six months from the thought that I think this is what I want to do, to actually taking action.
Where do you tend to start with people in helping them in their decision making process and figuring out their why?
Bianca: It really depends on when people find me. I always recommend as you’re starting to consider or you’re feeling a little bit stuck, that’s the best time to really start digging into your why and developing an action plan. Working with a coach is a great thing, but also talking to others who have done it, talking to your friends and family is always a good place to start.
I will say though, that half of my clients probably come to me when they’re already in this journey and really feeling stuck. Maybe wondering, did I make the right decision or these aspects of my life are lacking? What do I do? I’m unhappy with this choice that I made.
I think that’s quite common for expats as well as the honeymoon phase wears off and it’s like I’m over the cute cobblestone streets and pasha de nada, now I’m missing my friends. I’m missing home. They start having some frustration.
Maybe with the local language or things not working the way you’re used to. That’s when I see a lot of people self-isolate or really think they made a mistake. It’s always recommended at the very beginning to really be clear and have a plan.
People find me at different stages when they’re first considering it and they want some guidance on if it’s the right decision for them. Also, once they’ve made the decision and they’re wondering, what have I done? Is this ok? Am I supposed to be feeling like this? What do I do?
Carlie: I still remember the day I handed in my resignation back in Australia and thinking, oh gosh, what have I done?
It’s such a big leap for me. It was into the unknown. I was moving to the UK without a job, without too much of a plan. Then to hear people around me in the following weeks talking about recruiting for my position. I think there’s that, self defence mechanism that kind of kicks in, maybe I should just stay, maybe this isn’t the right choice, and pushing through that takes a lot of courage.
Bianca: It really does. The comfort zone is so powerful and I see what I call comfortable unhappiness. I see so many people get stuck in that because in a way, it is your brain telling you’re safe. You don’t need to be happy to be safe and survive. You’re just surviving. We don’t need anything else, but a lot of us have this burning desire, this urge for there must be something more.
Exactly what you’ve said. It’s the fear of the unknown. It takes a lot of courage to step out of that. Not just courage, but also confidence in your abilities, in your own resilience, in your capability to problem solve.
That’s one of the big pieces I take my clients through, whether they’re moving abroad or thinking about changing careers. Digging into breaking it down. What is the worst possible outcome that could happen? You maybe lose your job within six months of moving to a new country. I know that feeling very well. It’s scary.
A lot of people think this decision is permanent. That if they move to Spain, that’s it. That’s their life, and there’s no going back. I think for most of us, there is a way to undo things. There is a way to go back.
So, in working through these are the worst possible outcomes, and this is what I’m going to do if this happens, or this is what I can do to prevent this from happening. It reassures a lot of people that that they do have options to the worst possible thing that can happen.
For example, it might be bad, but I will manage, I can survive this, I can pivot and I think that’s really important for regulating the nervous system and also finding that courage to say, kay, I’m going to jump.
Carlie: I remember my mom saying to me at the time just remember if it doesn’t work out. You can always come home and, in 24 hours, you’ll be back in Australia.
That was super reassuring at points in London where things were tough.
Bianca: Exactly. Having a network of people and also reminding yourself it’s a plane ticket away. This is also where having a plan comes in place, of will you feel better? Will you feel more secure to have a little safety net aside? Not spend all your money on the plane ticket to go there, but save a little bit of money to have a plane ticket. Save a little bit to have money to go back home.
To plan ahead on those things really does make the difference when the times get hard because they will get hard moving abroad, it’s not easy. I personally think it’s definitely worth it. I’ve interviewed dozens of expats, digital nomads recently. Not one of them has ever regretted their decision and they all will tell you it’s worth it, do it, do it scared, do it anyway.
The feedback was almost unanimous on what advice would you give somebody who is scared? They’re like just do it scared. Have a plan. Have a fallback, but do it.
Carlie: Feel the fear and do it anyway.
Bianca, in your experience, when do the panicked phone calls start? When do your clients begin to face some challenges where they might be looking to you for some extra support? Is it before they get on that plane or is it 6, 8, 12, 18 months into their life abroad?
Bianca: I think it’s twofold.
I think the challenges are just different. Before, you mentioned in your example, as soon as you gave that notice, it became real. The moment that you booked the ticket, or you signed the lease contract, or you signed that contract for a job, then it’s real. It’s a mix between excitement but also is this really the right thing?
I think there’s a lot of nerves and there’s a lot of stress. Logistically speaking. You’re closing an old chapter, maybe getting rid of things, putting things in storage, saying goodbye to loved ones and you’re starting a new chapter. Potentially a new position, a new country, everything is new.
I think at that point, it’s really more about time management, prioritising, having your goals clear and set, taking action. I think that’s a little bit of, I wouldn’t say panic, but stress. I think the panic really kicks in once that honeymoon period wears off in the new country.
That varies from individual to individual. My personal experience with that having been an expat for company, so moving abroad for a position. I would get so submerged in my new role and trying to make that work that the biggest pitfall I encountered was failing to take a holistic view and set goals for other areas of my life.
I was fine the first few months, working away, performing in my new role, checking out the sites, getting to know neighbourhoods. But then after a few months, when my only friends were work colleagues, which my discussion was limited to, and the newness started wearing off, that was when reality started sinking in.
There were certain things I didn’t like, certain things that I missed, certain frustrations with the language. Then add in that all of a sudden you realise you’re alone.
The girl you Sunday brunched with before, or that yoga studio you visited on a regular basis where you had a sense of community, all of that stuff has gone. I think this is one of the important aspects in planning that people fail to neglect. They get so focused on logistics and the new job maybe, that they’re not taking a holistic view of what makes for a balanced life.
This contributes so much to the emotional and mental resilience to have that balance. That hobby that you used to have before, that community you can talk to, relate to, go out for drinks with, have brunch with. All of those things are so easily overlooked when you’re planning a move abroad, but after a few months, they really start wearing on you when you don’t have them.
I think that’s when most people call me is when they say I’m all alone. I don’t know what’s wrong. I’m not happy. What they’re missing is these pieces in their life that they didn’t proactively plan for.
Carlie: What did you do to fix the situation in your own life?
Bianca: What’s coming to mind right off the bat is my first time in Berlin because I clung to my work colleagues. Then my whole life there was just work. The people I was hanging out with after work were also from work.
I did have to pull myself up off the ground because I did hit that point where I was just binge watching Netflix every night. I didn’t want to go out. I felt lost. I felt alone. I felt unmotivated and I didn’t incorporate my hobbies at that time. I didn’t have friends outside of work, so I almost hit rock bottom and I realised I really had to pull myself up and force myself.
I sought out different communities, through meetup and different applications, to reach out to people. I signed up for gym memberships or class pass type of things where I could join local yoga studios and start sampling things. It worked out in the end.
I was able to start building that but I had a rough road before I started heading there. That’s what I would love for people to think about when they move to prevent that low point of where you’re not in a very good place because you forgot all those aspects that make you whole.
Carlie: This is my 11th year abroad and every so often something hits me that makes me realise I’m feeling a bit lonely or I feel like I don’t have many friends or I’m really missing this from my life.
I think the biggest thing I realised is that you really need to work possibly harder than if you were at home to find a community and maintain a community. The city that I’m in, people tend to come and go. So especially here, it’s like a friendship turnover happens and it gives you even more reason to really try to make friends with locals. Not just be in a fellow foreigner community because they’re not the ones that necessarily stay around.
Bianca: You’re absolutely right. As an expat, you’re still somewhat of an outsider. I’m still guilty of this. I’m working on my Portuguese, but I think trying to learn the language is really important as well. Meeting local people, making friends with the locals is really important and getting engaged with the community.
One of the hobbies that’s completely a new hobby for me, I’m all about facing my fears, Is rock climbing and bouldering.
Carlie: Awesome.
Bianca: Yes, and also terrifying.
Carlie: I low key might have a fear of heights.
Bianca: I totally have a fear of heights and I would totally post cool, epic videos of me crying or climbing, but I’m probably crying while I’m doing it.
Carlie: Cry Climbing. That’s a new one.
Bianca: Cry Climbing, it’s totally trending. But to be fair, I’m going to a gym with a lot of Portuguese people and I’ve found a hobby, where I’m also meeting local people and I’m being adopted. They’re trying to teach me Portuguese and I’m invited on the weekends to go out and explore.
Some people might find that through volunteering or speaking to people at the local shops and stores. All these little things definitely help. Having some local friends also helps with those feelings of loneliness because whether it’s a very transient city or you’re just an expat and all your expat friends leave for the holidays. Community, I think, is really a lifesaver when you’re on this journey.
Carlie: I also love that you can make friends in the most random of places. Years ago, I did a hula hooping workshop at a burlesque studio one Saturday afternoon and got speaking to a girl on the tram who was going to the same place. We’re still friends to this day and it was only because we turned up to that same workshop one Saturday.
Bianca: Yeah, it takes a lot of courage though, especially when you’re new somewhere. I spoke some German when I moved to Germany but even the first times I was going to a yoga studio, I’m like what if I don’t understand everything? Or what if I say something and sound stupid?
Carlie: You’re a German speaker and you’re worried about that. You should have seen me in my first French yoga class. My gosh.
Bianca: Yeah. Okay. The French might be a little tougher when it comes to the language.
Carlie: But did you at least get the key words? So, you were like downward dog at the right time.
Bianca: Yes, and another thing that comes up in coaching quite often, that we work on, is the confidence piece, which I struggled with. Limiting beliefs. Everybody has them. They vary from person to person.
For me, one of the beliefs I had is that my German needed to be perfect. Leaving Germany early on, but going back every now and then the visit, people forgot that I grew up in the United States, but they looked at me as German. So, when I made mistakes in my German, I was maybe a little bit criticised or made fun, she said something stupid and for me, that stuck with me.
I had this very high expectation that my German has to be perfect, or people are going to make fun of me and all of these things. It’s something I had to get over, work through and reassure myself. Try to improve. This is also a big thing that comes up in coaching, that there might be different reasons why people feel intimidated to go out, build up a community.
To address those fears and what’s coming up for those people, setting action plans and goals around that is really what coaching is about as well. It’s not that easy to just go to the hula hoop burlesque workshop or to go to the yoga class or to be on the side of a rock wall climbing in order to make friends.
Really working through what’s holding you back from stepping out and being a little bit uncomfortable is also important.
Carlie: One of our previous guests actually had a similar experience to you. He took his family to live in Taiwan. Ethnically he’s from Taiwan, but he grew up in the States. He said it was even more difficult because the locals would treat him as a local and then realise, his language wasn’t as up to scratch as a local person. It was almost like being an invisible expat in that way.
Bianca: The term imposter expat came up for me when I was reflecting on this. I’m felt I’m an imposter expat.
When launching the German retailer in the United States, in order to learn everything, the operations, we had to work as store associates. When you’re young, you don’t learn the names of all the spices, for example. I’m in a different part of Germany, and I would have adults ask me where things are in the store. I would have to tell them, I’m sorry, I don’t know what that is.
When you tell somebody like, you don’t know what sage is or whatever the case is. They just look at you like is there somebody else I could speak to and I’m like, absolutely. Yes. Let me go get that person for you and crawl in a hole and never come back out.
Carlie: But if you need to know the English word, I’m your person.
Bianca: Exactly. It does require a certain degree of being able to be humble in order to jump on this. But, like I said, no regrets. A lot of lessons learned that I love to share with others and guide them through. Prepare them to avoid some of these pitfalls. There will always be pitfalls to a certain extent. It’s not easy, but I’ve never had one person tell me that it wasn’t worth it.
Carlie: Bianca, it’s a new year. We’re recording this around the middle of January, where most people are still motivated for their new year resolutions. Me, I’m still macro counting. I have not yet given up. Wish me luck for week two.
For anybody who might have a move abroad on their 2025 resolutions list, where do you suggest they start?
Bianca: I suggest that they start with being 100 percent clear on why they want to move. That could be because you’re leaving something that you do not like, it could be you’re doing it for career opportunities, for more safety and security, for adventure, personal growth. Whatever your reason for why is, be clear on it, because the journey will be difficult and knowing your why is the solid foundation and a great place to come back to when some challenges arise.
The only other piece of advice I would give them, especially if they’re making these considerations or are in the planning phase, is take a holistic view of what’s important to you. Don’t just look at the career that you might be moving for, or the climate that you might be moving for. Take a look at all the different areas of your life. Your social life, your relationships, your finances, your home environment, and determine what’s important for you in each one of those areas.
As you start making those plans, look for places that can give you what’s aligned with your values or make a plan to have that in place for when you do land. I feel like basically the North Star to any journey abroad is being clear on those things and planning around them.
Carlie: Bianca, thank you so much for coming on the Expat Focus podcast today to talk about moving abroad in 2025 and how to make that happen in your life. If people are interested in your coaching services, where can they find you?
Bianca: Thank you so much for having me. Anybody that’s interested in coaching or learning more can find me on my website at biancatate.com. There they can book a free 30 minute introductory call. I also have a worksheet for decision making that they can download. That walks them through some of the worst possible outcomes and how to prepare for them. You’re more than welcome to also connect with me on LinkedIn under my name, Bianca Tate.
Carlie: That’s it for today. You’ll find plenty of move abroad inspiration in our podcast archives and on our website at expatfocus.com. While you’re there, don’t forget to sign up to our monthly newsletter. Just head to expatfocus.com/newsletter, and we love to hear what you think of the shows. So, rate and review us wherever you like to listen.
I’ll catch you next time.