Carlie: Hey there, it’s Carlie with another episode of the Expat Focus podcast, and this one is for anyone with their sights set on Peru.
Entrepreneur Alan LaRue is my guest: a language school owner, he’s been living in the country for a long time and is going to talk through the essentials, from where to live, what to bring with you, job opportunities in Peru, how to approach learning Spanish, and the Peruvian cultural norms that may take some getting used to.
Now, if you have any questions for Alan, you can ask them at expatfocus.com – just follow the links to our Peru forum or Facebook group.
Alan, can we start by talking a little bit about your background? You mentioned to me before we started recording that you’ve been in Peru for 25 years.
Alan: Nearly 25 years, I came in 1995, with the idea of staying for two years, and so you can see how that went! I ended up getting married here and I opened a business – these are all roots that tie you down. This country has treated me very well, and I’ve found no compelling reason to go back to Canada, where I’m from.
Carlie: I was going to say, where’s originally home for you?
Alan: Yeah, Canada, mostly the West Coast, mostly Vancouver, Victoria, that area.
Carlie: So you’re more than equipped to talk us through the five topics we’re going to touch on today, and they’re really ones that expats should consider when they move anywhere, but today it’s five aspects to consider for moving to Peru.
I’m curious before we start diving into these categories: in your experience, what are the main motivators for expats to choose Peru?
Alan: There [are] different motivators. Of course there’s the traditional expat who comes here because of work, they’ve been assigned to a job. And those are usually pretty urban-based expats, they live in Lima or – you know, Peru’s a mining country, so they might also be assigned to mines, that sort of thing. But we’re also getting a growing cohort of people who come for love: they’ve maybe met a Peruvian who lived abroad for a while, they’ve moved back with him or her, or maybe they’ve met somebody online and they’ve come for that.
We also get some retirees, I think that’s a growing cohort as well. So a little bit of everything, and kind of depending on who they are and why they’re here, that determines where they end up settling. There’s three regions in Peru, as you probably know: there’s the coast, there’s the mountains, there’s the jungle. Peru’s a very centralised country in that Lima is one third of the population: Lima is a ten-million-strong city, so it’s a mega-city. And most people who are here for professional reasons end up in Lima.
Maybe somebody who’s here more for of a cultural reason, they’ll go to the mountains, they’ll go to the sacred valley, which is close to Cusco – that’s a very beautiful place to live, it’s a very different lifestyle than Lima, for sure.
Then we also have the jungle, and that’s a nice, inexpensive lifestyle, a very nice climate. And we get some people who settle there as well: maybe the more adventurous of the expats! And I see them going to a city called Tarapoto, for example, some will also make it to Iquitos. Yeah, depending on who you are, it really depends on where you end up going, and Peru really has something for everybody.
Carlie: Are there some stereotypical personalities that end up in each of these three regions?
Alan: I suppose, for example, speaking of the sacred valley close to Cusco. I think there you end up getting people who are a little more, I guess, close to the earth, a little more spiritual in their outlook. In the jungle; boy, that’s a little bit of everything! You get some real nutty people there, but I guess you get nutty people everywhere. There are people who maybe want to get involved in agriculture… I don’t know, I try to stay away from stereotypes. It’s really varied. And Lima, you see a little bit of everything.
What we’ve gotten here recently, who are expats as well, are the Venezuelans. We’ve received 800,000 Venezuelans in the last three years in Peru, so that’s a real interesting shift in the expat profile here. Of course, being Latinos, they tend to absorb much easier and maybe are not as visible as your typical Asian or Northern European or North American expat. In Venezuela the economy’s collapsed, hyperinflation is in the millions, and it’s interesting because about thirty years ago Peru suffered from some of the same problems that Venezuela’s suffering from now, and almost 10% of Peruvians ended up leaving the country back then, so they’re very understanding, in many senses, to the Venezuelans who’ve come here. I think they’re very empathetic: they’ve sort of been down that road, and they feel very sorry for what Venezuela’s going through, and, yeah. It certainly hasn’t been easy for the Venezuelans who are coming here because they come here very poor, often, it’s a real struggle for them.
Carlie: It’s kind of refreshing to hear that the country is welcoming of its new arrivals – you hear so many stories, particularly of European countries and where I’m from in Australia – of people being a bit hostile when people are fleeing negative situations in their home countries. So that’s really refreshing to hear that Peru is quite understanding.
Alan: Yes, I think overall they are, but I don’t want to paint too pretty a picture – there are clearly conflicts, there is some friction. A lot of the Venezuelans who come here are competing for jobs at the lower end of the services sector, in stores and restaurants. So that does displace people, there’s no doubt about that, and it displaces primarily poorer people, and often women, so that there is some friction, but having said that, I think Peru is pretty empathetic to what Venezuelans are going through.
Carlie: It brings us to our second topic. So we first touched on the fact that Peru has three distinct regions. And your second point is about the cost of living, job and education opportunities that expats should consider before they move to Peru. Am I right in assuming that Peru is a relatively inexpensive country when it comes to cost of living?
Alan: You would have been right with that assumption ten years ago. I think a lot has changed in ten years, particularly in Lima. It’s an emerging economy, so there’s been quite a bit of generation of wealth over the last ten years. But having said that, there’s still a big gap between rich and poor.
So kind of, I guess where I’m going with this is, depending on how you want to live as an expat, you’ve got a real wide periphery and choices. If you want to maintain I guess what you’d call a middle class lifestyle in Europe or America, if you maintain that same lifestyle here, you’re no longer in the middle class, you’re in the upper class, the upper middle class.
Just to give you an idea, for a single person to maintain that lifestyle here in Lima, you’re talking about — I’m going to talk in US dollars, I guess that’s probably the best benchmark — you’ll probably need an earning of about $2,000-2,500 a month, for a single person. For a family, about $5,000 per month. So again, I’m talking about Lima, and I’m talking about somebody who wants to live a middle class lifestyle that they’d be accustomed to perhaps back home.
Those costs go up if you have children, because in Peru, whereas there is a free public education, many people if they have the wherewithal, they will pay for a private education, and it’s not cheap. It’s not cheap at all. You know, a private school costs you — a decent private school — anywhere from $500 per month to close to $1,000, or maybe even more per month.
Europeans or Canadians who are used to private health insurance — or, pardon me, a socialised health insurance — are going to end up with a national system here that has a lot of gaps, or they’ll pay for a private insurance, and for a single person you’ll be paying, depending on your age, but between $50-150 per month. A family of four will probably pay about $2,500 per year, depending on the insurance that you get, of course.
So in Lima, it’s not as cheap as it was: there are costs. Having said that, things like services are still quite cheap, because there is a vast work force here that is kind of undertrained. So for example, taxis are quite cheap; going to a restaurant is inexpensive. So those kinds of things are still cheap, but if you’re paying for rent, if you’re paying for school for your kids, that’ll be expensive in Lima.
If you go up to the provinces — when I say the provinces, I mean anything outside of Lima — the mountains, the jungle, or even along the Peruvian coast, where there are other important cities, you’ll be paying less, of course, but the quality of the service, the quality of the education, will probably be less as well.
Carlie: And so if you don’t happen to come to Peru with a company, for a job, what are you most likely to find in terms of work, if you’re an expat?
Alan: Depends on your background. But expats that I see here who are successful, who have come without a job, are the people who create their own job here: they’re the entrepreneurs. You see a lot of expats, for example, involved in the tourist industry, for one, or getting involved in the food service industry, opening a restaurant. They do quite well. People who work in software development, perhaps for local clients, or more frequently for foreign clients; they set up a development shop here — they’ll do quite well.
If you come here and you don’t already have a job offer, a lot of the expats I see end up working in the education sector. They end up working at a school, or teaching English classes, that sort of thing, where by and large your wage isn’t going to be that high. So I think if you’re considering Peru for a move, you have to think long and hard about that. You need to come here with some savings, and if you want to stay here over the midterm or the longterm, you really need a plan. You need a plan to generate money. I don’t think it’s wise to count on an industry here to provide a job for you.
Carlie: Something falling in your lap.
Alan: Yeah, exactly. You know, there are people who do work for foreign companies here, there’s a lot of people who do end up getting jobs, but they’re hired from abroad. But you see a lot of people — and they usually do quite well, they have a good salary, a good salary for Peru.
Carlie: I did see on your website, ExpatPeru.com, in the jobs forum, that there does seem to be a lot of openings for English teaching. So is that pretty sure: if you’re going to Peru without too many options, and you’re thinking about English teaching as one of the key ways to make a living?
Alan: Yeah. It’s not Asia; it’s not going to Korea, it’s not going to Japan, it’s not going to China. You have to hustle. But you can make a go of it here. Having said that, you’re not going to get rich as an English teacher, but you can learn an awful lot about the country. I did a little bit of that when I first moved here, and it was just a great way to meet people and to learn some of the ins and outs of the country. And people here sometimes think, well I need some sort of certification in order to teach English; and whereas that’s a plus, it’s often not required. Institutes here are happy to hire you if you have a university education, or you can maintain a conversation, you have some criteria, and you speak decent English yourself.
Now having said that, just a couple of words about legality here. You know, you can either choose to work informally, or you work formally. And working formally is a little more onerous: the employer needs to extend a contract to you, and they need to push that through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and it’s a little bit of a process for the employer, and there’s an expense involved. So having said that, a lot of people do choose to work informally — they work for cash — and then you’re limited to being on a tourist visa. And, you know, a tourist visa here now means you can be in Peru up to 180 days out of a 365-day period. That’s kind of a long-term tourist as opposed to somebody who is really making a go of it. English teaching is good for the very short term or if you want to work informally, but long-term you’re really going to want to network with the secondary schools, the primary schools —
Carlie: Trying to do some corporate teaching, or —
Alan: Yeah, corporate teaching can be more lucrative, but once again, you’re probably going to be doing that more informally unless you find somebody who is offering you a contract.
Carlie: Right. That is a tough one.
Alan: Yeah, it is a little tough, but you see people doing it.
[crosstalk]Carlie: Got to figure out the formula that works for you.
Alan: Yeah. The people I see who are successful here, generally speaking, are people who have a tie to Peru. You know, perhaps a significant other, a spouse, or some kind of family here, who is able to help them make those connections, etc.
Or the tourist who comes in, who wants to be able to pay for their stay for a couple of months — yeah, again they can do that, they can work in a bar or a hostel, do some English teaching — but they’re going to find that they’re not really going to make enough, compared to, for example, teaching English in Korea or Japan, once again.
Carlie: Your third point, Alan, on Five Things To Consider Before Moving To Peru, is actual preparation for the move: what to bring and what not to bring. Tell me why this is so important.
Alan: It used to be much more important than it is now. I mean, now there’s malls in just about every major city in Peru, with big department stores, where you can find just about everything. Having said that, people from North America should be aware that electricity here runs 220, so if you bring in something, your hairdryer, that’s 110, you’re going to blow it up on the same day.
Carlie: [laughs] You’re going to have some disappointment up ahead.
Alan: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, you know, Amazon delivers to Peru now, so you can find just about everything here. You know, if you are somebody who’s sort of used to the finer things in life, and you really want to have good china, good bedding; that sort of thing you would want to bring with you.
But besides that, most things you can get here. They’re imported, they might be cheaper abroad; but you can find most things here. When you come in, you’ll find a furnished apartment; the clothing in Lima is very occidental; you’ll have no trouble finding fashion — again, unless you’re a very very picky person in terms of clothing — the malls and the stores will be just fine.
Same goes for groceries: the grocery stores, at least in the main cities, stock some imported food. You won’t go lacking, you really won’t. And if you travel back and forth to your home country, you’ll be able to bring the few things that you’ll find that you need.
Carlie: There is an article on your website that goes into what to bring, what you can expect to find and not find; and one of the points in the piece is that there are high customs taxes, and so things like your computer and your camera gear, you should make sure you’re taking in your suitcase and not necessarily importing. Is that still the case, or have we seen customs fees go down in recent years?
Alan: Customs fees have dropped in recent years, as Peru signed agreements with all the major economies. So usually it’s not a problem bringing in electronics, you know, laptops; unless you’re bringing in three laptops and you’re a single person, then they’ll go, ah, you know, you need one laptop, maybe two, but the third one, you’ll want to sell that. So they will ding you a tax, I think it’s 10 or 20%. But by and large you shouldn’t have a problem if you’re bringing items in for your personal use.
Carlie: Is there anything from Canada that you can’t get in Peru, that you especially miss?
Alan: No. Our quintessential food in Canada is maple syrup and you can even find maple syrup here —
Carlie: Potatoes and gravy? [laughs]
Alan: Yeah. Yeah. It’s twice the price, but you can find it. Really, we’re not lacking in Peru. You know, especially in the major cities. Go out to some of the smaller cities in the mountains, in the jungle — you will be lacking, but a trip to Lima will solve that problem. You can find just about everything you want here.
Carlie: The joys of Amazon!
Alan: Yes! The joys of Amazon, and the joys of Kindle, you know? I mean, all our books are digital now; so that used to be a problem, and it isn’t anymore.
Carlie: So your fourth point, Alan, is learning the language. It goes without saying anywhere you move, really. Obviously, you should be brushing up on your Spanish in Peru.
Alan: You know, you should be brushing up on your Spanish in Peru, and before you get to Peru. Of course, yeah, I mean you say it goes without saying, but unfortunately we do have to say it! It’s amazing, some people who come here, and they never learn the language. And that’s because perhaps they have a spouse who runs interference for them. But I’m saddened when I see those people, because they really end up living in a bubble, and they don’t get to experience everything this country has to offer.
Whereas young people, in general, will speak some English, a lot of people still won’t. A lot of servers in the restaurants, or your taxi drivers — especially when you get outside of Lima, you really need some Spanish just to navigate, just to get around. And you should be getting around, this is such a fascinating country to explore.
You know, Spanish is without a doubt one of the easiest languages to learn. People don’t realise that, and we get a lot of people here from North America, you know, from the United States, who haven’t really had a lot of experience learning languages. So when they think about the prospect, it seems insurmountable: “I’ve never been good at languages”, “I’m too old.”
It’s frustrating to me because I own a language school. Because there’s techniques to learning a language. You know, it’s not that hard, you just have to put in the hours, with a technique, and you can learn Spanish. There’s so many cognates — cognates are words that work the same in English as in Spanish, or French — like ‘satellite’; ‘satélite’, for example. There are thousands, thousands of cognates that work back and forth between English and Spanish. So just that, that is such a boost, it’s such an aid, it makes vocabulary acquisition so much easier.
So anyway, I encourage anybody who wants to move to Peru or any other Spanish-speaking country: don’t be afraid of learning Spanish, it’s not that hard. Just get the technique down, put in the hours, and you will be able to learn it. And it’s going to make your life just so much better, so much richer.
Carlie: From your experience running two Spanish schools, one online and one in-person school, have you found that there is a standout technique that works for adults? I know I consider myself one of those who isn’t a natural at languages, and I’m very aware of my age and my ability to just, you know, absorb, like a child’s brain would. Is there a technique that you find works for most people?
Alan: You know, we always hear that example of a child. Children do absorb a language: their brains are set up for that, like a sponge, they just absorb until the age of about twelve of thirteen, and then it gets a little bit harder. But having said that, when you’re older you can also apply techniques: you have a different discipline.
So I think one of the best and easiest things to do is just work with a flash card system. Build your vocabulary organically. Build it applying goals. Your goal shouldn’t be “I’m going to become fluent in a month, or two months”; your goal should be “In a month, or two months, I’m going to learn enough Spanish to engage with the doormen in my building, to speak to a taxi driver, to order food, to speak in the present tense, maybe a little bit in the past.” You know, to sort of portion your learning.
Have a clear view of the steps you should be taking, and build your vocabulary in accordance to that, and just spend the time; you have to review. Review is key. Just review, review, review. And if you can work with a school, that’s all the better, because a school, one thing they do very very well, is they know how you should learn progressively. You know, a school will tell you what you should learn first, what you should learn next, etc etc etc etc etc.
But you shouldn’t count on a school to do all the hard work for you — you have to use the school, and you have to use your own curiosity, to build flash cards, and again, to do the work: to review, to review, to review.
Carlie: The dreaded homework!
Alan: You know, it doesn’t have to be that bad. It could be 10-15 minutes, twice a day. It’s really not that bad, and it works magic. That’s how the brain is set up: to remember things that you tell it are important. So the brain knows something is important if it receives that information over time. So you look at the words a couple of times one day, you look at them the next day, you look at them the next week, you look at them the next month, and you’re telling your brain: This is important. I need to remember this. And it works — it works. So you just apply the technique, put in the time — not a lot of time, some time — and, yeah. You’ll get there.
Carlie: Are there any particular dialects in different parts of Peru, or do they all speak the same type of Spanish, if that makes sense?
Alan: Yeah, no, that’s a great question. So, Peru is a multilingual country. Most people will speak Spanish, but there’s two indigenous languages here, one is Quechua, which was the language of the Incas; and the other is Aymara, which is another indigenous group that lives close to the border with Bolivia.
So a couple million people still speak Quechua. Most of those people will be bilingual, they will also speak Spanish. And there is innumerable indigenous languages in the jungle as well. Unfortunately a lot of those are on the point of disappearing, as those populations reduce and disperse.
And then the difference in the way we speak Spanish in different parts of Peru? Yeah, there are some differences. In the highlands, sometimes they’ll structure a Spanish sentence differently, because they will pattern it on a Quechua pattern, and the accent might be different. And in the jungle there’s a different accent as well, but by and large all Peruvians understand each other without any problem.
Peru in fact has a very very clear Spanish, particularly in Lima, because, well, Lima was the centre of the Spanish empire in this part of America. You know, this is where the Catholic church was based, this is where the first university in the Americas, San Marcos, was built, so it’s always been a very educated place, I suppose. The Spanish spoken in Peru, also Colombia, is known to be very clear, they enunciate well. At least, that’s what people tell me.
Carlie: Alan, your fifth point on Things To Consider Before Moving To Peru is anticipating and adapting to the cultural differences. Now I must admit, the only thing culturally that I know about Peru is that they eat guinea pig, compared to the rest of the world, where most of us keep it as a pet. [laughs] So what other cultural differences are important to know?
Alan: [laughs] Yeah, well, that’s… not everybody will eat guinea pig. Guinea pig is eaten mostly in the mountains; some people will eat it in Lima. But to understand why not everybody eats guinea pig is… you have to understand the polarity. This country really has some big divisions in terms of culture, in terms of race, in terms of wealth, as well. So guinea pig is more of a highland, a mountain food. And some people in Lima will just refuse to eat it: they’ll say no, that’s horrible.
But besides that kind of difference, I guess you could say that, for a European or a North American or maybe an Asian to come to Peru, on the surface a lot of things are going to be pretty similar. The clothing is similar; a lot of the holidays will be the same. The food… the food here is delicious, by the way. They have a wonderful, wonderful cuisine. But the food will be easy to adapt to for people from the areas that I mentioned. The movies, the art; all of those surface items, a foreigner’s not going to find a lot of difference superficially.
Carlie: There’s nothing too jarring there.
Alan: Well, not on first take, not on first glance, but when you dig down, the culture’s… I’ve heard it described as an iceberg. You see the top ten percent, and these are the things you identify with — the clothing, the holidays, the food — but there’s other things beneath the surface that you don’t see. And those can be the landmines. You know, Peru’s more of a conservative culture than Canada, where I’m from. There’s more of a Catholic heritage here. And whereas most people — my peers — don’t go to church anymore, they’ll still identify as a Catholic. You know, they’ll go to church maybe at Christmas, or they’ll certainly get married in a church — but a lot of the elements, the conservative elements, have remained.
You’ll find that in family roles, there’s more of a machismo here, without a doubt. Values: the LGBTQ movement, which has made so much progress in Europe and North America, is only starting to get traction now. There’s still an awful lot of prejudice for people of a different sexual orientation, they’ll suffer a lot of discrimination here.
Women’s rights are still twenty years behind what they are in Canada, for sure. Gender roles.
And even things like recycling: there’s not a lot of consciousness for things like recycling and the environment. It’s not a criticism there; people are just at a different stage of the evolution; and in an emerging economy like Peru, people… really, most people… you know, they’re struggling to get by. And they have, I guess, other priorities.
And you’ll see that politically as well; there’s more of an autocratic tendency here, politically speaking. There’s more of a tolerance to autocrats who pop up, who maybe are not dictators, but they have some dictatorial power moves from time to time, and people put up with that. They say, “We need a strong person in charge!” It’s been that way for many, many years. Even going back to the Inca, who was God on earth — that’s pretty hierarchical! To the viceroy, to the pillars of the Catholic church, to the different military governments that Peru’s had.
So when you talk about democracy, some people [say] “Yeah, OK, democracy, that’s important, but what’s really important for me is buying shoes for my little girl, or glasses for my son.” So again, you know, things like recycling — you know, I really wish people would take more of a consciousness — but I understand why they’re not, I guess they’re just focused on something else.
Carlie: You mentioned that it’s kind of not Peru’s fault, it’s just where they are in their evolution, you could say. But as an expat, do you find that frustrating, at times?
Alan: Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. You know, watching somebody drive down the street and throw paper out the window, you know, that’s frustrating —
Carlie: Something that we learned not to do in the 80s and 90s, you know?
Alan: Yeah, and not to say that everybody here does that, but you’ll still see it.
Maybe on a lighter note, there’s other cultural faux pas, I guess, that you could make. Things that we don’t think twice about: throwing coins on the table. You know, when you’re paying your bill, you toss a few coins on the table, and here tossing coins, or tossing bills, is really seen as being disrespectful.
Or, if you’re in a social context, you’re in a party or a get-together, and you’re talking with some friends, and behind you there’s another group of people, you really have to be cautious not to turn your back to people sometimes, that’s perceived as being very very rude.
If you walk into an elevator here, it’s really curious how people will form into a semi-circle, even strangers —
Carlie: Oh, so they don’t have their backs to each other?
Alan: Yeah, which…
Carlie: Fascinating!
Alan: If you think about it, yeah, it’s fascinating, and it’s kind of nice, if you think about it.
Carlie: It’s so polite!
Alan: It’s very polite. And the whole opening doors for people, particularly women, there’s that whole gentlemanly thing that’s still very much in play here.
If you walk into a room, you’re the one that should say hello. If you walk into a party, and say there’s only twelve or fifteen people at the party, you go around and you shake the hands of the man, and give the women a kiss on the cheek. And when you say goodbye, you leave the party, you should do the same thing.
Carlie: Mm-hmm. That’s something here in France that I still struggle with, is walking into a room where there might be twenty, twenty-five people, and yet it’s still the polite thing to go and individually acknowledge everybody, and it feels so, like, awkward to me, but for everybody else, it’s just what you do.
Alan: It’s what you do, yeah, and you do get used to it. But you make a really interesting point: I’ve found that French, Italians, French Canadians — Québecois — they seem to adapt quicker than a lot of other folks. And it must be that sort of Latin heritage — the joie de vivre — I don’t know.
Carlie: There is some overlap, there.
Alan: There is some overlap, yeah. There’s certainly some overlap.
And of course the traffic: that’s something nobody quite expects here. The traffic here can really be heavy. And part of the problem is just driving manners. Cutting you off, and not signalling; that’s kind of cultural aspect that can surprise here when they come. Foreigners here, I think people are very patient with foreigners and the faux pas that they might make.
Carlie: After almost twenty-five years in Peru, what has been your biggest lesson; and what is something that, if you had your time again, you might have done differently?
Alan: Huh. You know, back in 1995 when I came, this country was just coming out of the grips of terrorism. Terrorism had really only ended three years prior, in 1992-1993. So the country was just beginning its growth. So knowing what I know now, in hindsight I certainly wish that I’d invested in real estate, invested in the agricultral sector, things like that.
And, yeah, I guess that’s about it. The other things I don’t regret; you know, mistakes I’ve made, it’s all part of the adventure. I don’t think I’d do many things differently, except again, yeah, maybe some of these economic decisions I made.
Carlie: Your top piece of advice for expats who have Peru in their sights?
Alan: Doing your research first, clearly. Where you want to live, what you want your lifestyle to be like, and to make very good choices when you first arrive in terms of, I guess your first friends. Because your first friends will sort of determine, in many ways, the path that you end up taking, because that sort of is where your network begins to grow. It’ll decide what kind of life you want to have here.
Of course, to learn the language, if you’ll allow me to plug my own school, we have two schools: one is Web Spanish, so webspanish.com, and we teach people Spanish online. And then once people come to Peru we have a large school here called El Sol, it’s located in Miraflores, which is a very nice district in Lima, it’s a very comfortable place to be, and we have full-time courses, full-time immersion programs for people. So, yeah, I invite people to come to our school, we’ve been in operation since the year 2000, so we have a very good reputation here.
Carlie: That’s it for this episode. Follow Expat Focus on Twitter, and let us know if there’s a topic you’d like to hear covered on the show. Be sure to check out our other episodes; we talk about all aspects of expat life, all over the world.
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