Carlie: Hey there it’s Carlie with the Expat Focus Podcast. So, you’ve fallen in love with the beautiful country of New Zealand, how can you go about moving there to live and work? What sectors are especially interested in employing foreigners, and what’s the visa application process like?
David Andrews is joining me in this episode to talk through your various visa options, application requirements and the costs involved. David’s the founder and director of Visa Visa Immigration Services and Hire Minds Recruitment. He’s also an expat in New Zealand himself, so he knows exactly what it’s like to pack up your life and move to a new country.
To watch as well as listen to this episode, head over to our YouTube channel, Expat Focus, where you can subscribe, and leave comments if you have any questions.
David, thank you for joining me on the Expat Focus podcast to talk about moving to New Zealand.
David:Thank you very much, Carlie. It’s really nice to be here. Good evening and kia ora from New Zealand.
Carlie: I noticed from your bio that you’ve called New Zealand home for quite a few decades now, but you’re originally from the UK. So, can you cast your mind back? I know when I moved from Australia to London, well, from Australia to the UK, I had some unexpected culture shocks, even though it was another English-speaking country. Can you remember any initial culture shocks that you experienced when you moved to New Zealand?
David: Yeah, I was quite surprised coming from the UK, coming here. I mean, I expected it to be the same as England because, you know, it’s settled by the English, but it was like England 30 years ago when I arrived.
Carlie: Oh, really?
David: Some of the things were strange, like going into town and finding all the shops close at one o’clock on a Saturday, and they don’t open again until Monday. That’s obviously changed in the last 30 years, and people not wearing shoes. A lot of Kiwis don’t wear shoes, and you think, “Am I in a poor country?” And the climate, and, just no people. When I arrived in 1990 there was a population of 3 million over two islands. Now we’re up to 5 million
Carlie: It’s still a bit “we”, isn’t it?
David: Yeah, yeah. I live in the South Island and there’s just about a million people in the South Island, so don’t tell anybody or they all want to come .
Carlie: Well, then you got into the business of helping people come to New Zealand. So how did that happen?
David: I spent nine years in the military in the UK and then I decided that I wanted to sort of stretch my legs a bit. And I ended up in a relationship, as you do, sort of following someone around the other side of the world and came to New Zealand.
Carlie: I know that one.
David: I worked for an engineer for a few years and moved to Australia for a couple of years, lived in Melbourne. Then I managed to get a job in America and lived in America for three years. And then I came back and thought, “Well, what can I do that I’m interested in that I have experience in?” and that’s traveling around the world and moving to different town.s And so, I studied and became a licensed immigration advisor so I can help people come here.
Carlie: Other than the fact that people weren’t wearing shoes, and the fact that there weren’t many people, do you recall your first impressions of New Zealand?
David: When I flew into Auckland Airport and I got off the plane, I just felt like a spiritual thing. I don’t know, I just felt, “I’m meant to be here”. I just felt, “Wow, this is where I’m meant to be.” And it just felt clean and fresh and, I mean, the country’s only a couple hundred years old. I mean, that’s one culture shock. We don’t have old things. We don’t have old cathedrals and old churches. And we have a 200-year-old building, which is historic. So yeah, it’s all very new and fresh and. Unspoiled, I would say.
Carlie: It’s the opposite for me living in Europe and coming from Australia where we don’t, as you say, your history is 200 odd years and then you come to a city like Strasbourg where I am in France and the oldest Christmas market and you’re talking like 1800s kind of thing and it blows your tiny mind.
David: Yeah, that’s what I mean. One of the things I do miss from the UK is, you know, Windsor castle and some of the classic history of the country, but we have a lot to offer in New Zealand as well.
Carlie: I’m ashamed to say as an Aussie that I’ve never made it to New Zealand, but I’ve seen so many beautiful images over the years. And of course The Lord of the Rings really put the country on the map, to be extremely cliché. So I know there’s so much natural beauty there.
David: The Lord of the Rings was a trilogy of marketing for coming to New Zealand. And I live in the South Island and I’ve been not far from the Southern Alps where a lot of the scenes in the mountains were filmed and it’s just like it is in the movies. It’s just, you can walk on the beach and there’s nobody there and you can wander up a mountain and you’re on your own. It’s very raw and very untouched, I suppose. It’s a beautiful country. Lucky to live here.
Carlie: David, fast forward to today and you’re helping people from all over the world to relocate to New Zealand. Can you tell me how that process normally begins?
David: A lot of people, various ways, I get calls from very strange places. Mainly a lot of people will come here on holiday. Everybody has it on their bucket list to come to New Zealand. They come, they fall in love with the country. Older people approaching retirement, decide that, yeah, it’d be a great place to come and settle down, cash up their properties overseas and come and live here quite comfortably and not so expensively.
I get students come here, they want to study; I get people who travel overseas and meet a Kiwi or the other way around, and they want to bring their partner to New Zealand; so I do a lot of partnership, you know, a couple in America, he’s a Kiwi, she’s an American, they want to come and settle down here.
I do work visas and quite a lot from America. We have the working holiday visa where people under 30 can come here for a year and they can work and travel, which appeals to a lot of people. You know, you can come on a limited budget and you can still move around and get a job.
And then we have the other end of the retirement visas where people want to come here permanently and make New Zealand a home. So a lot of people find me in New Zealand and Australia, you have to be a licensed immigration advisor. I’m both. I have Australia and New Zealand now. So some of them find me on the immigration authority website, which lists all the licensed agents and being David Andrews on top of the list.
Carlie: Oh, very useful! Alphabetical advantage right there.
David: I get a lot of people that way. A lot of word of mouth and obviously marketing and advertising but mainly people just tend to find me and I’m always busy, which is good.
Catlie: I know from friends who have moved, for example, with their UK partners back to Australia, and they’ve gone through the process of the partner visa, just how much work is involved, how many little details do you need to include making sure you’re ticking all the boxes.
What’s the advantage? I mean, I feel like this is an obvious question, but what is the advantage of partnering with someone like yourself when you’re working on a visa application instead of trying to just go it alone?
David: I suppose the main benefits are the rules change a lot, and you don’t want to be declined. Some people think, “Oh, I’ll do my visa myself” and then they get declined. And then when they apply again, they have to say, “I’ve been declined” and that obviously affects them. I’ve been doing this for quite a number of years now and I know what immigration wants. So I try and put forward what we call decision-ready applications. So I make sure that my clients give me the evidence that I need: the living together evidence, the evidence of the stability of the relationship or the paperwork. And I won’t submit it until I’ve got all of the documents. And that also then speeds up the process. If you do it yourself and you forget something, immigration will send you a letter, then you have to go back again and back again.
So, it can be very stressful moving countries, and hopefully, what I do is take the stress out of that. You can focus on packing your boxes and looking forward to moving and let me do the visas.
Carlie: And expensive, can I just say. I was looking at if my partner and I ever moved to Australia, and a partner visa for Australia these days is close to AU$10,000. Is that similar sort of prices for visas in New Zealand or are they a bit more reasonable?
David: A partnership visa right now is close to NZ$5,000. It’s about half of what is in Australia. And then you have the agent fees. You know, I would say NZ$10,000 for everything. You know, including the agent, you know, my fees and immigration fees is probably the norm.
A lot of other visas are much cheaper, like, working visas can be NZ$750. Student visas are not great. But the reason the partnership visas are expensive is they are a lot of work because partnership is the next step to residency. Most people bring their partner in and they get a work visa to keep their partner in the country until they’ve gathered the 12 months together in the country to be able to move on to the resident visa. So it is a lot of work for immigration and a lot of work for us advisors, as well.
Carlie: I don’t know if we’re ever going to do it, but I do keep a little box. And if we get like an invitation to something, or, you know, there’s a letter that talks about us or Christmas cards, I kind of stash a few things away cause I think maybe I’ll need that as evidence one day.
David: If you’re planning on coming to New Zealand in a relationship and partnership, you need to provide two things to New Zealand: genuine and stable, likely to endure, and living together. So, start keeping a photo diary. You know, when you go out, keep the tickets or, you know, take photographs together, get your family and friends, keep your flight bookings, get parcels delivered to your house with your joint address on it, open joint bank accounts, get a joint mortgage or joint tenancy agreement. Stack all that away because that is really, really helpful and that’s what I struggle: with a lot of couples getting the evidence of, even though they’ve lived together for five years, they maintain their own bank accounts and their own finances and blah, blah, blah. And then it’s hard for me.
Carlie: It’s great to be independent, but also you need to show you’re a unit, right?
David:Yes, tes. True.
Carlie: I am curious because there are employers in New Zealand that are looking for workers in certain areas. Is it possible to come to New Zealand being sponsored and in that way, maybe have the fees covered by the person who’s hiring you?
David: It depends on the role. I mean, right now in New Zealand, I looked online yesterday and there were 10,000 vacancies on the recruitment website. We are very short of skilled workers: doctors, nurses, construction engineers. We have a tier system: tier one, tier two, in one section. Tier one is straight to residency. So, if you’re a doctor living in the US or living in the UK and you want to come to New Zealand and you meet the requirements, you will get straight to residency visa, which gives you confidence that you’re going to come to the country and you don’t have to worry about you might be kicked out because you lose your visa. You’ve got a resident visa, you’re here.
Next level down the tier two is the plumbers, the construction guys, the painters, the plasterers, the healthcare workers. They can still have a path to residency, but that may take one or two years, but they still have that path.
The lower traits don’t have a path to residency. They will get a five-year visa, but it’s very, very hard for someone who’s working in a factory to be able to get enough points or enough salary or enough experience to move up that level to ever get residency.
Carlie: Okay. So it’s really advantageous if you can match yourself to those tier one and tier two jobs.
David: Yes. I mean, we just had a big reshuffle at the end of April to cut out the lower roles. And now employers have to be accredited. You have to be an accredited employer, which means you’re certified by New Zealand to be able to recruit overseas staff. You then have to post advertising for that role. You then have to post all the information about the role to immigration to be able to give them a token to be able to employ. So it’s quite a complex process and it’s taking six months now from yay to nay to actually get someone landed in New Zealand.
The reason for doing that is we need skilled migrants, we don’t need the lesser-skilled people. We need the doctors and we need the engineers to come. So, we’re making that much more attractive to them. You get the golden ticket when you turn up sort of thing.
Carlie: But there are still opportunities if you’re just looking at a gap year or just to live in another place or study in another place for a couple of years. It doesn’t mean New Zealand doesn’t want you, it just means they’re not going to give you the red carpet rollout, right?
David: Some people will come to New Zealand and they end up being here anyway. They’ll come from the US or Canada, France, a lot of countries in Europe and in the Americas. We have the working holiday visa, so they come on a working holiday visa, they get experience or they study, they meet somebody, they increase their skills and then they move on to the next level and they decide they want to stay. They turn their working holiday visa into a work visa and then-
Carlie: And then they realise the need to become a doctor.
David: Yeah, yeah. I mean, some people will come here and study or they finished their qualifications overseas but didn’t totally get qualified, so come here and do some study, do a master’s for a year. There’s always ways.
Carlie: And what’s the cost of living like right now in New Zealand, David? Because I know in Australia it’s quite hectic at the moment. Is New Zealand experiencing a similar thing or are the living costs in the country a little bit more reasonable?
David: It’s expensive. I would say, compared to other countries because of where we are geographically. I mean, we are, you know, next stop: South Pole. I mean, our nearest neighbour is Australia, three hours flying away. We import a lot. We export meat and dairy and trees, But we have no fuel, so we import petrol and a lot of food. So that adds to the cost.
So I would say, the cost of living is quite high and wages are generally lower. We get a large brain drain of New Zealanders going to Australia. Australia is our biggest loss of skilled professionals. They will grow up in New Zealand, they will do their study, they will get their university degree, and they will go either to Europe or the States or Australia.And that’s a big drain for us.
Carlie: Sorry about that.
David: Because we’re so far away, young people feel isolated and we have a large connection to Europe. So a lot of them will do their qualifications and take their gap year or a couple of years and then off to Europe and hopefully come back one day.
Carlie: So we talked about you needing to have a lot of evidence and that it’s a really in-depth process for the partner visa, for example. But what about other visas for New Zealand and the application process? What should you expect?
David: If you’re in a visa waiver country, like a lot of Europe and the States and Canada, and you want to come for a holiday, it’s very easy. It will cost you NZ$17. Don’t go on to some of these sites that promise you cheap visas, go directly to the Immigration New Zealand website and search ‘ETA’ and you fill out an online form which is an electronic travel authority and you come and you get three months, six months as a tourist. That’s the easiest way to come.
And after that, if you want to come in with any other visas, engage an advisor. What I normally do for clients is I sit down with them and say, “What do you want?” and then “What have you got?” And I do an eligibility assessment and say, based on your education, based on your experience, your health, your age, these are the visas you may be eligible to apply for and this is what you need to do to be able to get those.
There are so many different variations that it’s always better to get someone to look at your situation and give you some advice. But the easiest one is, come as a tourist.
Carlie: Good way to test it out.
David: Yeah.
Carlie: And so what’s the general timeframe? If I’m working with you, I’ve got my visa application ready, we submit it. How long before I should expect to start packing my bags?
David: Well, ETA, I mean, that’s issued in 24 hours. So, you know, you can come and have coffee with me on the weekend. Some of the work visas can take up to six months. Some of the partnership visas, six months to 18 months, and some of the entrepreneurial-type investment visas can take up to two years. But yeah, it depends on what you’re doing. And if you need occupational registration to say you’re a doctor and you need to register with the New Zealand Medical Council, for example, those things can delay. And if you don’t have all your documents or if you’re from a country where you need to get your documents translated into English, or you have to do English tests, these can add time to your application.
Carlie: So there are requirements like English tests that can be involved?
David: If English is not your first language.
Carlie: Okay, I probably don’t need to do the test, then.
David: And depending on the role.
Carlie: And I was speaking to Mia Stewart. She’s an Australian living in the USA who went through a few visa applications, and she says there is this handy spreadsheet that gets passed around visa applicants that helps you kind of understand where you are in the queue and when you’re likely to get your interview. Is there something formal or informal like that that helps you monitor whether you will be waiting maybe six months or 12 months for your visa approval? Or is it kind of just, one day you’ll get an email?
David: It is like that these days. They brought out a new system called ADEPT, which is based on AI. In the past, an application would go on a pile, an immigration officer would take that off, they would own that until it was done. Now, with the new AI-type system, five or six immigration officers can be working on the file at the same time. One can be doing security checks, one can be doing medical checks, one could be doing reference checks. So if I ring up and say, “What’s happening to Carly’s visa?” They say, “Oh, we don’t know” because it’s with one of the five officers who are doing it.
Immigration put out a processing time which you can look at on their website and it says, if you are applying for an x visa, the current processing time is 60% done within six months. So you can get a general idea of how long your visa is going to take you. And your advisor should give you regular updates on how your visa is processing along.
But there is no magic box or tool that you can say, you know, where am I on the list or where am I on the queue?
Carlie: It’s third in the pile from the top.
David: Yeah, yeah, it’s sitting on that desk and they’ve gone on holiday for two months. As long as your advisor is on the ball and he’s submitted everything, that’s going to smooth out the process because immigration doesn’t need to keep coming backwards and forwards and asking for more information.
Carlie: Can we speak about what that ‘more information’ could be? I know we spoke earlier about the fact that doing it yourself with a visa application, if you miss something, it can be rejected and then that can be a problem when you apply again. In your experience, what are the common mistakes that people are making or oversights that extend the approval process?
David: People don’t declare convictions, people don’t declare medical issues or health issues, people don’t declare having visas declined or access declined into another country because they think that immigration won’t know about it. There’s a lot of data sharing going on and just lack of information. You know, it says provide a timeline of your relationship and you don’t do a decent timeline or provide evidence of your living together and you send a copy of a tenancy agreement. It’s not enough. It has to be comprehensive. So a lot of people don’t send enough information. Some people send too much and some people don’t send enough.
It’s a case of understanding what immigration are looking for to match the specific visa. Like, for visitor visas, for example, if you’re a single attractive woman travelling on your own you might get pulled up and they say, “Why are you going to return to your home country? What genuine reasons have you got to go back?”
So I would get my client to get a letter from their employer saying, “Carlie’s been granted a three-week holiday to come to New Zealand for tourism work, She’s expected to be back to work on the 15th of the month.” Things like that, small little things like that.
Carlie: Is there a bit of country discrimination in that, too?
David: Yeah, there is. I’ll give you an example. I mean, not trying to be racist, but India, for example, there were a lot of fraudulent documents coming out of that country and immigration shut down some of the offices in that country. And now, anybody from that country who wants to come here, their visas will get looked at a lot more under the microscope than someone coming from the UK or from America. It’s not racial profiling, it’s just that there’s such a high instance of fraudulent activity that immigration have to be responsible to make sure that who is coming in is who they say they are.
And some of the countries where there’s wars going on or there’s unrest that they can have an impact. I mean, immigration, we’d love people to come here and visit but we also have to look after the welfare of the country and the people that live here, as well. So I wouldn’t say that’s racial profiling, but some countries are harder to get visas for than others.
Carlie: And you said there are about 10,000 job vacancies in New Zealand right now. Is that considered high?
David: I think the unemployment rate is not super high, but, population: five million. That’s just off one website where I searched 10,000 vacancies. I noticed there are 350,000 vacancies in Australia on one website. But a lot of jobs don’t get advertised, a lot of jobs are fulfilled word of mouth.
We have seasonal vacancies as well. Like, we may need 500 workers for picking fruit or doing the seasonal work. If you go onto the New Zealand Immigration website and look at the skills list, the green list one and two, you will see radiographers, doctors, surgeons, teachers, healthcare workers, construction engineers,, infrastructure. We’ve grown by two million people since I came here in 1990 and we continue to grow, but the infrastructure hasn’t grown at the same rate. They’re building hospitals, but we don’t have the doctors; they’re building roads, but we don’t have the engineers. So we need skilled migrants to enable us to keep growing as a country.
Carlie: We spoke earlier about, as you say, those tier one tier two jobs, you kind of basically have permanent residency and I’m guessing a pathway to citizenship from the get-go. What about if you’re coming on a restricted year working visa for a different class of job? Is there an opportunity to one: renew; and two: eventually move to permanent residency and New Zealand citizenship?
David: So, if you come, for example, on a working holiday visa, I mean, the purpose of that is for you to come out on a working holiday. One of the rules on the working holiday visa is that you can’t have permanent employment. So, you can’t have the same job for the whole year. It’s designed for you to go to Auckland, you work in a bar or work in a, whatever for a few months, then you get out to Wellington and then you move down to Christchurch. That’s what it’s designed for.
But I’ve done a few visas for a couple of Canadian ladies. They came here on working holiday visas, they had really good skills, they were offered good jobs, they had their visas approved, they got their work visa, and then they moved on to resident visa, and then obviously onto, so it depends on your skills, really. I mean, if you come here on a working holiday visa and you’re a cleaner, for example, you know, the expectation that one day you’re going to get a resident visa is going to be quite low.But if you come here and you’re a mechanical engineer or a nurse or, you know, you have a skill, then there’s obviously more chance for you to turn that visa into something that will enable you to stay here longer.
Carlie: So, do you have people that you initially get their visas for and a couple of years later they come back and say, “David, I’ve decided to stay, help me”?
David: I’ve done a lot of visas where I’ve grown them up from nothing. So they come here and they say, “Hey, David, I’m here on a visitor visa and I’ve been up at a job. Can you help me get a work visa?” So I get them a work visa. And they say, “Hey David, my work visa, you know, I’ve met a Kiwi guy and we’re in a relationship.” So, okay, I’ll get you a work visa and the partnership. And then, “Oh David, we’ve got married now and my partner is going to support my resident visa.” So, okay, we’ll get you a resident visa. And I see the whole journey.
Carlie: I hope you’ve had some wedding invites over the years, as well.
David: I have a lot of people crying. That’s one of the joys of my job is to ring people up and say, “Hey, Carlie, Welcome to New Zealand. He’s your resident visa.” and, “Oh. David”, you know, it’s giving someone a new life, a new start in a new country and that’s one of the great joys of what I do is saying to someone, “Hey, welcome to New Zealand.” So yeah, I do follow people along.
Carlie: Along their life journey.
David: Yeah. And babies. I had one lady from the States and she met a Kiwi, he’s a Māori guy, really nice guy. He was on holiday in the States and they met. And I’ve seen them through three children and she got her resident visa last week. So, you get to be part of the family.
Carlie: Yeah, definitely. But it goes to show how long it can take if it’s taken three kids to get a resident visa.
David: Well, I mean, when you’re on a work visa and you apply for another work visa, immigration usually will give you an interim visa to be able to stay in the country lawfully while they’re processing your next work visa. You don’t get an interim visa while you apply for a resident visa. So if your resident visa takes a year and a half and your work visa is only a year, you’ll need to apply for a second work visa to remain lawfully in the country while they’re processing your resident visa.
Carlie: Right.
David: So, some resident visas can take a year, year and a half. And you have to be lawfully in the country.
Carlie: And you have to bridge that gap. Yeah, absolutely.
David: Bridge the gap, yeah.
Carlie: I want to be real for a second, David. We spoke earlier about how a visa could cost around five grand and then add maybe another five grand of fees on top. So, can we speak generally about what sort of fees people should expect to pay with visa applications, especially if they get help from someone like yourself?
David: So, my fees are on a case-by-case basis, but, for example, I would be charging NZ$1,500 a round for a student visa. I would be charging maybe NZ$3,000 for a work visa, and maybe up to NZ$5,000 for a partnership visa, because that’s the most amount of work. And then you have other visas like the entrepreneur visas or the investment visas and they’re a lot of work. And you can do it on a case-by-case basis.
One of the rules of being licensed here is I don’t take fees in advance. So we have a contract, I do all the work, and when I’m ready to submit your application, then we send you our invoice. But you’re already told upfront what all the costs will be, so there are no surprises at the end. But that’s one of the things we do as an eligibility assessment is we will say, this is what you want, this is how much it’s going to cost, this is how long it’s going to take, this is how much you’ll pay me, this is how much you’ll pay Immigration, and this is when you’re going to pay. So, it’s always worth it.
Carlie: Everything is very transparent by the sounds of it.
David: Yeah.
Carlie: And I like that, well, it’s interesting that you don’t take the fee, and I guess you take the fee when the application is ready to submit. So, you make sure that the application is really solid and that the fee for the person paying it is going to be worth it, right?
David: Yeah. I mean, some agents can take fees in advance, but then you have to be audited and it’s just a lot of hassle you just don’t want. I mean, I tell you how much it’s going to cost, I do all the work, and I don’t want applications not to be approved, it goes bad for me. I have quite a high success rate because I do a good job and I won’t submit your application unless you give me everything.
So yeah, it’s a win-win for both of us. You know, I pressure you, “Carlie, you haven’t given me this document. I’m not going to submit it.” So. once we’ve got everything and we’re ready to press the submit button, then I send you an invoice.
Carlie: And you’re staying with the client through the journey to approval, right? So if there’s a follow up, if there’s extra information needed, you’re helping with that, as well?
David: Yeah, I don’t charge for that, either. So, just say I charge you NZ$2,000 for a work visa, and then immigration sends me a letter saying, “We haven’t got this, we haven’t got that” I provide that. I don’t send you an invoice, but that’s all part of the package. We quite often get letters from immigration saying, “Hey, can you clarify this lady was divorced and we didn’t get a copy of the divorce decree or something?” You know, I hold your hand until I call you and say, “Here’s your visa.”
Carlie: And you say, “Look, here’s my five babies.”
David: And then I’ll remind you in a year’s time when it’s time to renew it.
Carlie: That’s really useful, too.
David: Yeah.
Carlie: Just finally, David, we spoke a little bit at the start about what attracted you to New Zealand. What do you love about life in New Zealand?
David: So, I lived in Auckland for 20 years, which is the biggest city and 2/3 of the population live in Auckland and I recently moved to the South Island, to Christchurch in the South Island, and I just love that we’re on an island, and it’s only 20 minutes left or right to the ocean, usually. I drive to work in the morning in the wintertime, and I see the Southern Alps from The Lord of the Rings with all the snow on them. We can go skiing, we can go surfing, there’s just so much, and I love driving my car, and you can get out there and in five minutes there’s nobody. You can drive a long time and not see anybody. I like that. The open spaces, the clean, green, fresh air of New Zealand.
And people are really friendly. New Zealanders are really friendly. They will go out their way to help you there. You’ll walk down the street and people say “Hello”. And, you know the people in the supermarkets. When we had COVID here, the Prime Minister said,”We’re a team of five million” and that’s how it feels. You know, there’s five million of us, but it feels like we’re a team and we all know each other and there’s no class system, there’s no us and them, you know? We’re Kiwis and it’s a great place to be. I love it.
Carlie: That’s it for today, you can get in touch with David through his website, which is visavisa.co.nz and don’t forget to visit us at expatfocus.com to explore loads of free resources to help you move abroad easily. Like, follow, subscribe to never miss an episode, and I’ll catch you next time.